looking at my options


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

I have 2 Quantar repeaters up at a mountain site.One VHF & one UHF both of them are setup with routers and PI's. The VHF is currently not connected to the internet.
I have the UHF Quantar at the site linked to two other UHF Quantars linked via Private reflector. This trio is also bridged P25 to DMR.   This allows others in our group to connect either via Private reflector or via DMR.
Now the next item on my list is what to do with the VHF Quantar.  I dont want it as a full time member of the UHF Trio. at the same time I want to setup a reflector and another P25 to DMR bridge as I did with the UHF repeaters.

Mike


Steve N4IRS
 

Mike,
As I read this, the VHF repeater would have access to either the "trio" reflector (with DMR bridge) or the MMDVM reflectors (NA etc). As you laid out you could add a reflector to be used to bridge the VHF repeater to DMR on it's own.
Everything you laid out will work. That all being said, IF you were not limited to the existing tools, how would you want to configure?

Steve N4IRS

On 2/23/19 8:55 PM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
I have 2 Quantar repeaters up at a mountain site.One VHF & one UHF both of them are setup with routers and PI's. The VHF is currently not connected to the internet.
I have the UHF Quantar at the site linked to two other UHF Quantars linked via Private reflector. This trio is also bridged P25 to DMR.   This allows others in our group to connect either via Private reflector or via DMR.
Now the next item on my list is what to do with the VHF Quantar.  I dont want it as a full time member of the UHF Trio. at the same time I want to setup a reflector and another P25 to DMR bridge as I did with the UHF repeaters.

Mike


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 


 That opens up a lot Steve,  Ok not looking at the existing tools.
I would like to have access directly to the trio or each individual UHF repeaters and/or the VHF repeater via MMDVM Hotspot (DMR or P25, YSF*) and the same abilities with the VHF. We would like to link in the VHF repeater with the others as needed but not full time. Key here is to allow connection with MMDVM hot spots.  There has been interest in the use of YSF access to the system as well but that is on the back burner right now.



 


Steve N4IRS
 

Mike,
 So, let's drop out DMR and YSF for now and concentrate on P25. We are talking about any to any connectivity. A repeater (or node) can connect to any other repeater. The model for this that I'm familiar with is AllStarLink. Not only can any node connect to any other node, any node can have multiple nodes connected to it at the same time. If node A is connected to node B and node C, traffic from node B is sent to node C via node A. Effectively, each node is a conference bridge.   MMDVM nodes are outbound only devices and only one connection at a time. We will need a method for a MMDVM node to be able to accept a inbound authenticated connection. That would take care of the one to one requirement. I think the easiest place to look is P25Gateway, it's current operating mode is simple. P25Gateway looks at the TG being sent by MMDVM_Bridge (and MMDVMHost in a hotspot) and "connects" to a IP address and port as defined in the host file. From that point, any TG number transmitted by MMDVM_Bridge, that is not in the host file is sent to the target reflector. The reflector dutifully reflects that TG to all connected nodes. About as simple as it gets.

 To me, it make the most sense to not modify MMDVM_Bridge, but to replace P25Gateway. The replacement would need to do 3 things. 1: Route outbound traffic to a IP/PORT based on a TG lookup in the host file. 2: Accept inbound authenticated traffic. 3: Route traffic to all connected nodes. The TG becomes a issue that would have to be worked out. As a side note, the host file should be replaced with a DDNS system. When a gateway comes online it reports it's IP address to a DDNS (authenticated of course) that way when a node wants a outbound connection to another node, it's a simple DNS lookup. The inbound traffic would be authenticated against the DDNS. This is what I proposed to AllStarLink a couple of years ago but I was unable to convince people it was a better way.

So, what do we do today? I'm picturing each node has it's own local reflector. If the outbound traffic from MMDVM_Bridge is intended for a shared reflector (10200) the existing P25Gateway simply routes traffic to the shared reflector. If another repeater want to connect inbound it connects just like it's connecting to a shared reflector. The difference is it connects to the local reflector of the distant repeater. If the distant repeater is not currently connected to a shared repeater, it's connected to the local reflector and the traffic is passed to the local repeater. No e-mail from me is complete without a flow diagram:

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector

Outbound traffic goes from MMDVM_Bridge to P25Gateway to the distant reflector which can be someones local reflector or a shared reflector. Hotspots would not be changed, they would be outbound nodes only.

I would love to see other thoughts. That is the reason I answered your question that way I did. If we can design a workable method and break it up into sections, it could be built. I know there are enough people lurking that might have some ideas.          

Steve

On 2/25/2019 11:10 AM, Mike AE4ML wrote:

 That opens up a lot Steve,  Ok not looking at the existing tools.
I would like to have access directly to the trio or each individual UHF repeaters and/or the VHF repeater via MMDVM Hotspot (DMR or P25, YSF*) and the same abilities with the VHF. We would like to link in the VHF repeater with the others as needed but not full time. Key here is to allow connection with MMDVM hot spots.  There has been interest in the use of YSF access to the system as well but that is on the back burner right now.



 


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

I like the idea,
I had originally give a thought to local reflectors ( Repeater <-> Quantar_Bridge <-> MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> P25Reflector
However the issue that comes up is this. All of these sites are fire-walled and denying most inbound ports.

The next step was to create a reflector for a test. I created a AWS site to host a single reflector. Then  I expanded on that reflector to include a functional DMR to P25 Bridge.

Can we expand your idea of local reflectors to a central reflector.
Can I host multiple reflectors on a single AWS instance ? using multiple port numbers i.e.
repeater 1  41000
repeater 2  41010 
repeater 3  41020
repeater 4  41030


Steve N4IRS
 

Yes you can. Simply run multiple instances of P25Reflector with each ini file edited to taste.
You can have one executable and 4 ini files.
P25Reflector repeater1.ini
P25Reflector repeater2.ini
...

On 2/25/2019 2:37 PM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
I like the idea,
I had originally give a thought to local reflectors ( Repeater <-> Quantar_Bridge <-> MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> P25Reflector
However the issue that comes up is this. All of these sites are fire-walled and denying most inbound ports.

The next step was to create a reflector for a test. I created a AWS site to host a single reflector. Then  I expanded on that reflector to include a functional DMR to P25 Bridge.

Can we expand your idea of local reflectors to a central reflector.
Can I host multiple reflectors on a single AWS instance ? using multiple port numbers i.e.
repeater 1  41000
repeater 2  41010 
repeater 3  41020
repeater 4  41030



Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 


So my central reflector would look something like this

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34103     32010         42020                      41000
34100     42020         32010

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34203   32110           42120                      41010
34200   42120           32110      

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34303     32210          42220                   41020
34300     42220          32210

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34403     32310          42320                 41030
34400     42320          32310


Steve N4IRS
 

Without going through each group, yes

On 2/25/19 5:21 PM, Mike AE4ML wrote:

So my central reflector would look something like this

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34103     32010         42020                      41000
34100     42020         32010

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34203   32110           42120                      41010
34200   42120           32110      

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34303     32210          42220                   41020
34300     42220          32210

MMDVM_Bridge <-> P25Gateway <-> Local_P25Reflector
34403     32310          42320                 41030
34400     42320          32310



Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

Steve,
I started building on the centralized reflector(s)
The first reflector was no problem. Its up and working.
The second reflector nothing can connect to it. I see in the logs of the repeater that it is connecting to reflector 2 (102x3) but then it times out.

I have noticed that once a device fails connection to a reflector that there are no further retries.  I have to do a restart on P25gateway to reattempt.

I can't find anything in the Docs files as to the port 42010. I found this first layout in documentation.

102x2 Reflector                                                                                                                                           310xx7
P25_Ref <->   P25Gtw       <->   MMDVM_Br   <->  An_Br_P25    <->  An_Br_DMR  <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                     P25
  41000   -->  41000 32010  -->  32010 34103  -->  34103 34001  --> 34001 31100  -->  31100 62032 --> 62032
  42010  <--   42010 42020  <--  42020 34100  <--   34100 32001 <-- 32001 31103  <--   31103 62031 <-- 62031
                                                   DMR
                                                   31100
                                                   31103

102x3 Reflector                                                                                                                                          310xx9
P25_Ref  <->       P25Gtw    <->   MMDVM_Br   <->   An_Br_P25    <->   An_Br_DMR   <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                    P25                                                                                      DMR 
  41010   -->  41010   32110  -->  32110  34203 -->  34203  34101  -->  34101 31200  -->  31200 62132  -->  62132
  XXXXX <--  XXXXX  42120 <--   42120  34200 <--  34200  32101  <--  32101 31203  <--  31203 62131  <--  62131
                                                   DMR                                                                                      P25
                                                  31200                                                                                    34203
                                                  31203                                                                                    34200


Steve N4IRS
 

Mike I run 3 P25 reflectors on dvswitch.org:

[General]
Daemon=0

[Id Lookup]
Name=/var/lib/mmdvm/DMRIds.dat
Time=24

[Log]
# Logging levels, 0=No logging
DisplayLevel=1
FileLevel=1
FilePath=/var/log/P25Reflector
FileRoot=P25_DVSwitch_Reflector

[Network]
Port=43166
Debug=0

#############################################

[General]
Daemon=0

[Id Lookup]
Name=/var/lib/mmdvm/DMRIds.dat
Time=24

[Log]
# Logging levels, 0=No logging
DisplayLevel=1
FileLevel=1
FilePath=/var/log/P25Reflector
FileRoot=P25_NA_Reflector

[Network]
Port=41000
Debug=0

#################################################

[General]
Daemon=0

[Id Lookup]
Name=/var/lib/mmdvm/DMRIds.dat
Time=24

[Log]
# Logging levels, 0=No logging
DisplayLevel=1
FileLevel=1
FilePath=/var/log/P25Reflector
FileRoot=P25_TAC1_Reflector

[Network]
Port=41010
Debug=0




On 2/28/2019 9:59 AM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
Steve,
I started building on the centralized reflector(s)
The first reflector was no problem. Its up and working.
The second reflector nothing can connect to it. I see in the logs of the repeater that it is connecting to reflector 2 (102x3) but then it times out.

I have noticed that once a device fails connection to a reflector that there are no further retries.  I have to do a restart on P25gateway to reattempt.

I can't find anything in the Docs files as to the port 42010. I found this first layout in documentation.

102x2 Reflector                                                                                                                                           310xx7
P25_Ref <->   P25Gtw       <->   MMDVM_Br   <->  An_Br_P25    <->  An_Br_DMR  <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                     P25
  41000   -->  41000 32010  -->  32010 34103  -->  34103 34001  --> 34001 31100  -->  31100 62032 --> 62032
  42010  <--   42010 42020  <--  42020 34100  <--   34100 32001 <-- 32001 31103  <--   31103 62031 <-- 62031
                                                   DMR
                                                   31100
                                                   31103

102x3 Reflector                                                                                                                                          310xx9
P25_Ref  <->       P25Gtw    <->   MMDVM_Br   <->   An_Br_P25    <->   An_Br_DMR   <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                    P25                                                                                      DMR 
  41010   -->  41010   32110  -->  32110  34203 -->  34203  34101  -->  34101 31200  -->  31200 62132  -->  62132
  XXXXX <--  XXXXX  42120 <--   42120  34200 <--  34200  32101  <--  32101 31203  <--  31203 62131  <--  62131
                                                   DMR                                                                                      P25
                                                  31200                                                                                    34203
                                                  31203                                                                                    34200


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

Steve,
They are definitely up
root@ip-172-31-19-69:/opt/310749/P25Reflector# netstat -unap | grep -e "P25Gateway" -e "P25Reflector"
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42010           0.0.0.0:*                           6280/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42020           0.0.0.0:*                           6280/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41000           0.0.0.0:*                           1564/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41010           0.0.0.0:*                           23972/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42110           0.0.0.0:*                           23911/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42120           0.0.0.0:*                           23911/P25Gateway


This is what I see on the one repeater that isn't connecting I: 2019-02-28 14:22:14.286 Opening P25 network connection

I: 2019-02-28 14:22:14.286 Opening P25 network connection
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.241 Loaded 13 P25 reflectors
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.688 Loaded 126125 Ids to the callsign lookup table
M: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Starting P25Gateway-20180409
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Started the DMR Id lookup reload thread
M: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Linked at startup to reflector 10283
W: 2019-02-28 14:24:15.711 No response from 10283, unlinking
I: 2019-02-28 15:22:20.431 Loaded 13 P25 reflectors
!
/var/log/syslog
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Stopping P25Gateway Service...
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Stopped P25Gateway Service.
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Started P25Gateway Service.

if I switch this repeater over to the first reflector it links right up

I have looked at the setup , open udp ports. I've looked at the logs including syslog. I'm stumped at the moment.

10283 Reflector                                                                             310749
P25_Ref <->   P25Gtw       <->  MMDVM_Br   <->  An_Br_P25   <->  An_Br_DMR  <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                 P25                                                                                 DMR 
  41010   -->  41010 32110  --> 32110 34203  -->  34203 34101  --> 34101 31200  --> 31200 62132 --> 62132
  42110   <--  42110 42120 <-- 42120 34200  <--   34200 32101  <-- 32101 31203 <--  31203 62131 <-- 62131
                                                 DMR                                                                               P25
                                                31200                                                                              34203
                                                31203                                                                              34200


Steve N4IRS
 

I think the issue is at the Gateway not the Reflector.
Shutdown one gateway and test connect to each Reflector
Then shutdown first Gateway and test connect to each Reflector

If that works, we can trouble shoot 2 Gateways on the same machine.

On 2/28/2019 10:48 AM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
Steve,
They are definitely up
root@ip-172-31-19-69:/opt/310749/P25Reflector# netstat -unap | grep -e "P25Gateway" -e "P25Reflector"
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42010           0.0.0.0:*                           6280/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42020           0.0.0.0:*                           6280/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41000           0.0.0.0:*                           1564/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41010           0.0.0.0:*                           23972/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42110           0.0.0.0:*                           23911/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42120           0.0.0.0:*                           23911/P25Gateway


This is what I see on the one repeater that isn't connecting I: 2019-02-28 14:22:14.286 Opening P25 network connection

I: 2019-02-28 14:22:14.286 Opening P25 network connection
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.241 Loaded 13 P25 reflectors
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.688 Loaded 126125 Ids to the callsign lookup table
M: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Starting P25Gateway-20180409
I: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Started the DMR Id lookup reload thread
M: 2019-02-28 14:22:15.689 Linked at startup to reflector 10283
W: 2019-02-28 14:24:15.711 No response from 10283, unlinking
I: 2019-02-28 15:22:20.431 Loaded 13 P25 reflectors
!
/var/log/syslog
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Stopping P25Gateway Service...
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Stopped P25Gateway Service.
Feb 28 09:22:14 147030_Madison systemd[1]: Started P25Gateway Service.

if I switch this repeater over to the first reflector it links right up

I have looked at the setup , open udp ports. I've looked at the logs including syslog. I'm stumped at the moment.

10283 Reflector                                                                             310749
P25_Ref <->   P25Gtw       <->  MMDVM_Br   <->  An_Br_P25   <->  An_Br_DMR  <->  MMDVM_Br   <-> BrandMeister
                                                 P25                                                                                 DMR 
  41010   -->  41010 32110  --> 32110 34203  -->  34203 34101  --> 34101 31200  --> 31200 62132 --> 62132
  42110   <--  42110 42120 <-- 42120 34200  <--   34200 32101  <-- 32101 31203 <--  31203 62131 <-- 62131
                                                 DMR                                                                               P25
                                                31200                                                                              34203
                                                31203                                                                              34200


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

REF 1 -- GW 1

REF2 -- GW 2

RPTR 1 -- REF 1
RPTR 2 -- REF 2

shutdown GW 1
REF -1 drops 127.0.0.1 connection
RPTR 1 changed to REF 2  and will not connect

started GW 1
REF 1 adds  127.0.0.1
shutdown GW 2
REF 2 drops 127.0.0.1
RPTR 1 changed to REF 1 and connects
RPTR 2 changed to REF 1 and connects


Problem GW 2


Steve N4IRS
 

Mike,
I guess you are sawing the issue is GW2? without GW1 running GW2 can not connect?

On 2/28/2019 11:33 AM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
REF 1 -- GW 1

REF2 -- GW 2

RPTR 1 -- REF 1
RPTR 2 -- REF 2

shutdown GW 1
REF -1 drops 127.0.0.1 connection
RPTR 1 changed to REF 2  and will not connect

started GW 1
REF 1 adds  127.0.0.1
shutdown GW 2
REF 2 drops 127.0.0.1
RPTR 1 changed to REF 1 and connects
RPTR 2 changed to REF 1 and connects


Problem GW 2


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

GW 1 up working
GW 2 up only connection 127.0.0.1

GW2 taken down GW 1 continues to works as it always has. .
Step two
GW 1 down then neither of them work
Step three
GW 2 brought up and connection to REF 2 127.0.0.1 only
attempt to connection repeater 1 or 2 both time out and neither show in the log of REF 2
Step four
GW 1 brought up and both repeaters can connect to REF 1 no problem

M: 2019-02-28 16:39:41.464 No repeaters linked
M: 2019-02-28 16:40:39.679 Adding AE4ML      (127.0.0.1:42110)
M: 2019-02-28 16:41:41.489 Currently linked repeaters:
M: 2019-02-28 16:41:41.489     AE4ML      (127.0.0.1:42110) 1/120


Steve N4IRS
 

Maybe I'm still not getting it.
Run one reflector. Run GW1 only. Problem?
Same reflector. Run GW2 only. Problem?

Sent via smoke signal (AT&T)


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 11:52:31 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] looking at my options
 
GW 1 up working
GW 2 up only connection 127.0.0.1

GW2 taken down GW 1 continues to works as it always has. .
Step two
GW 1 down then neither of them work
Step three
GW 2 brought up and connection to REF 2 127.0.0.1 only
attempt to connection repeater 1 or 2 both time out and neither show in the log of REF 2
Step four
GW 1 brought up and both repeaters can connect to REF 1 no problem

M: 2019-02-28 16:39:41.464 No repeaters linked
M: 2019-02-28 16:40:39.679 Adding AE4ML      (127.0.0.1:42110)
M: 2019-02-28 16:41:41.489 Currently linked repeaters:
M: 2019-02-28 16:41:41.489     AE4ML      (127.0.0.1:42110) 1/120


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

running GW 1 / REF 1 ONLY no problem 127.0.01 shows and  repeaters can connect

Running GW 2 / REF 2 ONLY  127.0.0.1 shows in the reflector and no one can connect to the reflector

no crossed port numbers and with both GW and REF up I can see these ports
root@ip-172-31-19-69:/opt/310749/P25Gateway# netstat -unap | grep -e "P25Gateway" -e "P25Reflector"
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42010           0.0.0.0:*                           7522/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42020           0.0.0.0:*                           7522/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41000           0.0.0.0:*                           1564/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41010           0.0.0.0:*                           23972/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42110           0.0.0.0:*                           11638/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42120           0.0.0.0:*                           11638/P25Gateway


Steve N4IRS
 

Why 2 variables? GW2 REF1 works?

On 2/28/2019 12:03 PM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
running GW 1 / REF 1 ONLY no problem 127.0.01 shows and  repeaters can connect

Running GW 2 / REF 2 ONLY  127.0.0.1 shows in the reflector and no one can connect to the reflector

no crossed port numbers and with both GW and REF up I can see these ports
root@ip-172-31-19-69:/opt/310749/P25Gateway# netstat -unap | grep -e "P25Gateway" -e "P25Reflector"
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42010           0.0.0.0:*                           7522/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42020           0.0.0.0:*                           7522/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41000           0.0.0.0:*                           1564/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:41010           0.0.0.0:*                           23972/P25Reflector
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42110           0.0.0.0:*                           11638/P25Gateway
udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:42120           0.0.0.0:*                           11638/P25Gateway


Mike AE4ML <mike.lussier@...>
 

Yes,
GW2 to REF 1 works if I change these values in the p25gateway.ini file for GW2

RptPort=32110  to 32010
LocalPort=42120 to 42020
startup=10283 to  10282


Steve N4IRS
 

Why would you have to change any of the values below. Add a entry for REF1 to the host file for GW2.

On 2/28/2019 12:25 PM, Mike AE4ML wrote:
Yes,
GW2 to REF 1 works if I change these values in the p25gateway.ini file for GW2

RptPort=32110  to 32010
LocalPort=42120 to 42020
startup=10283 to  10282