Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR


Gary Mackey <Garymackey@...>
 
Edited

I've been searching the group and  Wiki section and finding a wealth of information almost to the point of information overload :-). I'm trying to find out if there is a better way to bridge YSF to DMR vs our current configuration. A way that would give us audio level control between DMR and Fusion and visibility into the number of DMR connections would be idea.

Our current configuration is WiresX Room 40557 (Ohio-Lnk)  that is bridged to YSF 48038 (Ohio-Link) using an OpenSpot (original). Our YSF reflector is being bridged for us by the BrandMeister team to TG31399.  Our WiresX room is running MS server 2018 and our YSF reflector is running on Debian. Both servers are hosted at the same location. This configuration has been in place for about 1.5 yrs now.

Over last 4 to 5 months we're started to experience randomly what sounds like looping audio from the DMR sides. I've uploaded a short video clip so you can hear what I'm talking about.

Some of the time this looping will clear on its own, most often we have to restart our YSF service to get it to stop. If your listening on the DMR TG side you don't hear looping. The looping is only head by the WiresX and YSF users. We have  ~25 repeaters/nodes connecting via Wires-X and ~30 connecting via YSF. Some of the local DMR repeaters carry us as a static TG. No visibility on how many are connecting on DMR side, and no information on how the Brandmeister team has us configured on their side. I only provided them with the DNS name for our YSF server and it magically was bridged.


I'm open to any suggestions. I do have a couple of the NW digital ThumbDV USB sticks.

73.
...Gary, KE8O


Steve KC1AWV
 
Edited

YSF narrow, or YSF wide? If YSFN there's no need for the DV sticks, as YSFN is AMBE. If you're using YSFW, which is IMBE, then you'll want the sticks since software vocoders seem to have a tough time making the audio quality something you want to listen to.

Now, that being said...

There's a couple options here. Number one is you can try YSF <-> MMDVM_Bridge <-> MMDVM_Bridge <-> DMR. Connect one MB to the YSF reflector, and one to Brandmeister. Also, make sure the ports on the two MB instances are set to send/receive to each other. I think you may need YSFGateway between MB and the YSF reflector, but it's been a while since I've set it up... Number two is YSF2DMR, but that's outside the scope of DVSwitch. Both of these options will work for YSF narrow.

If you're using YSF wide, you'll need to put Analog_Bridge in the middle, so that the data to/from DMR gets transcoded from IMBE to AMBE and vice versa. That's where you'll need the DV sticks.

The looping thing, it might be caused by someone with two personal hotspots running on the same frequency in close proximity to each other. This is a common occurrence on Brandmeister, where someone has a hotspot in their car and one at home, and you get looping audio when that person's car pulls back into their driveway. Checking the ID that's transmitting when you experience the looping audio may give a clue as to the offending hotspot.

Steve KC1AWV


Gary - KE8O <Garymackey@...>
 
Edited

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Steve N4IRS
 

Gary,
You really don't want to use Analog_Bridge in a YSFn to DMR bridge. You will loose audio quality. You should not need a gain adjustment using MB to bridge DMR you YSFn. Since that type of bridge is the easiest to setup, give it a try.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/19 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Steve KC1AWV
 

What Steve said. The fewer steps you use, the better off you'll be. I haven't needed to adjust gain when connecting like digital modes using DVSwitch.


On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 6:38 PM Steve N4IRS <szingman@...> wrote:
Gary,
You really don't want to use Analog_Bridge in a YSFn to DMR bridge. You will loose audio quality. You should not need a gain adjustment using MB to bridge DMR you YSFn. Since that type of bridge is the easiest to setup, give it a try.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/19 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Gary - KE8O <Garymackey@...>
 

That sounds promising. I’m not sure how Brandmeister has us bridged on their side but DMR coming into our YSF reflector is about 30% louder then our YSF audio and DMR users report we’re to soft on the DMR side. 

...Gary, KE8O 


David Ranch
 


I've seen the same behavior with the WW6BAY YSF room connected to a DMR TG via a BrandMiester-provided link.  The audio coming from the DMR side into the YSF room is "overdriven" and clipping.  I've tried to contact the Brandmiester people to see if there is any tuning possible but I've never received any response.

--David
KI6ZHD


On 04/27/2019 06:45 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
That sounds promising. I’m not sure how Brandmeister has us bridged on their side but DMR coming into our YSF reflector is about 30% louder then our YSF audio and DMR users report we’re to soft on the DMR side. 

...Gary, KE8O 


Steve N4IRS
 

Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Gary - KE8O <Garymackey@...>
 
Edited

Hi Steve,

i sent you a private message with the details.

thanks 
...Gary, KE8O


Jerry Purcell
 

Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


 

you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Steve N4IRS
 

I setup a test bridge for Gary so that they could test a DVSwitch DMR <-> YSFn bridge to see if they had the same issues, looping and audio level mismatch. I have to say I don't see how a bridge could cause the looping.
A DMR <-> YSF bridge is the absolute simplest you can build with DVSwitch. It is simply one instance of MMDVM_Bridge. The DMR points to their target BM TG and the YSFn points to their reflector. No Gateways, no transcoding. This is simply AMBE to AMBE. We are seeing a difference in audio levels. Some DMR stations are louder to YSFn listeners and YSFn stations are quieter to DMR listeners. We think this is a difference in the setup of a DMR radio versus a Yaesu radio.

Mike N4IRR has some comments on audio levels between the two modes and he is planning a writeup for the wiki. We also discussed the possibility of allowing adjusting the audio level in this type of bridge. Plans are in the works for a proof of concept over the next week or so.

73, Steve N4IRS


Jerry Purcell
 

Thanks for the response but wouldn't that only let me be bridged over to the YSF from DMR?
I have several users on the YSF and some of their friends are asking for me to link

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Russell, KV4S <russelljthomas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:51:58 AM
To: main@dvswitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


Steve N4IRS
 

Jerry,
No, anyone can use a TG. It's just the TG number itself that is the same as your DMR ID. If you get on your DMR HT and key up on TG 3112138 (my ID) anyone else can use that TG to communicate. What we are saying is that you do not need a TG number assigned by BM. You can use YOUR ID as a TG number.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/30/2019 10:02 AM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Thanks for the response but wouldn't that only let me be bridged over to the YSF from DMR?
I have several users on the YSF and some of their friends are asking for me to link

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Russell, KV4S <russelljthomas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:51:58 AM
To: main@dvswitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary



Jerry Purcell
 

Ok thank you, I'm really new to all this.

Jerry KC9ZAR

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:29:41 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Jerry,
No, anyone can use a TG. It's just the TG number itself that is the same as your DMR ID. If you get on your DMR HT and key up on TG 3112138 (my ID) anyone else can use that TG to communicate. What we are saying is that you do not need a TG number assigned by BM. You can use YOUR ID as a TG number.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/30/2019 10:02 AM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Thanks for the response but wouldn't that only let me be bridged over to the YSF from DMR?
I have several users on the YSF and some of their friends are asking for me to link

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Russell, KV4S <russelljthomas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:51:58 AM
To: main@dvswitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary



Steve N4IRS
 

To be a little more clear and the BM guys can chime in.

You can use any DMR ID assigned to YOU. Not just make up any TG number.

Steve


On 4/30/2019 4:48 PM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Ok thank you, I'm really new to all this.

Jerry KC9ZAR

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:29:41 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Jerry,
No, anyone can use a TG. It's just the TG number itself that is the same as your DMR ID. If you get on your DMR HT and key up on TG 3112138 (my ID) anyone else can use that TG to communicate. What we are saying is that you do not need a TG number assigned by BM. You can use YOUR ID as a TG number.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/30/2019 10:02 AM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Thanks for the response but wouldn't that only let me be bridged over to the YSF from DMR?
I have several users on the YSF and some of their friends are asking for me to link

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Russell, KV4S <russelljthomas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:51:58 AM
To: main@dvswitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


-- 
szingman@...


Jerry Purcell
 

👍

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 5:12:28 PM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 

To be a little more clear and the BM guys can chime in.

You can use any DMR ID assigned to YOU. Not just make up any TG number.

Steve


On 4/30/2019 4:48 PM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Ok thank you, I'm really new to all this.

Jerry KC9ZAR

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:29:41 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Jerry,
No, anyone can use a TG. It's just the TG number itself that is the same as your DMR ID. If you get on your DMR HT and key up on TG 3112138 (my ID) anyone else can use that TG to communicate. What we are saying is that you do not need a TG number assigned by BM. You can use YOUR ID as a TG number.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/30/2019 10:02 AM, Jerry Purcell wrote:
Thanks for the response but wouldn't that only let me be bridged over to the YSF from DMR?
I have several users on the YSF and some of their friends are asking for me to link

Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Russell, KV4S <russelljthomas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:51:58 AM
To: main@dvswitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
you actually do, use your own DMR ID as a group call! :)
I had my YSF bridge setup to mine for a while and it worked great!

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Jerry Purcell <kc9zar@...> wrote:
Steve N4IRS

Hello,
Maybe this is not the correct place to post or ask this question. If not, sorry in advance. Any direction would be helpful.

I don't have a DMR TG but would like one so that it could be bridged to my YSF reflector.

Thanks again,
Jerry
KC9ZAR


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Steve N4IRS <szingman@...>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 9:39:12 AM
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io
Subject: Re: [DVSwitch] Looking for a better way to bridge YSF to DMR
 
Gary,
Give me a DMR TG (BM) and a YSF Reflector IP and Port. I can spin up a quick bridge as a demo.

Steve N4IRS

On 4/27/2019 6:33 PM, Gary - KE8O wrote:
Hi Steve,

thanks for for your reply. I looked at the MB ini in the wiki and there doesn’t appear to be away to adjust the audio levels between YSFN and DMR. I look at Analog_Bridge and spotted a gain adjustment. Is it possible to use AB to bridge YSFN to DMR?

As far as our looping audio from DMR it doesn’t seem to be tied to any one person. If fact during our weekly net it happened on someone checking on a DMR repeater.

73,
...Gary


-- 
szingman@...