Pi digital interface for Analog Radio (client)


Steve N4IRS
 

Still have this little issue:
The MMDVM software can look like a DMR repeater transmitter to a subscriber radio. The MMDVM software can look like a simplex signal (DMO) to a subscriber radio. What the MMDVM software can not do, is look like a subscriber radio to a DMR repeater. The same is true for traffic from a DMR repeater to the radio. The MMDVM software can not receive the output of a DMR repeater.

On 11/2/20 6:13 PM, Skyler Fennell wrote:
You could certainly do it with either Fusion or P25 with the remote gateway function enabled. 

I want to try it at some point ...

Radio less ASL node —> analog_bridge —> mmdvm_host P25/YSF REMOTE GATEWAY =1 —> ft-7800 9600 baud data port. 

Might be kinda a clunky mobile requiring a pi and a sound card and an extra speaker and mic   . 

So anyone, if I DO have a radio capable of Key/Unkey rapidly that would support tier II is there any hardware out there relatively easy to use to make a DMR client radio? 



On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 4:03 PM Jim Kusznir <jim@...> wrote:
Ok, thank you guys!

I figured there was a reason I didn't see someone making (overpriced) boxes that plugged into the data port of an analog radio to enable DMR...Even at $150, it would be a savings over buying a whole new radio.

--Jim


Skyler Fennell
 

You could certainly do it with either Fusion or P25 with the remote gateway function enabled. 

I want to try it at some point ...

Radio less ASL node —> analog_bridge —> mmdvm_host P25/YSF REMOTE GATEWAY =1 —> ft-7800 9600 baud data port. 

Might be kinda a clunky mobile requiring a pi and a sound card and an extra speaker and mic   . 

So anyone, if I DO have a radio capable of Key/Unkey rapidly that would support tier II is there any hardware out there relatively easy to use to make a DMR client radio? 



On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 4:03 PM Jim Kusznir <jim@...> wrote:
Ok, thank you guys!

I figured there was a reason I didn't see someone making (overpriced) boxes that plugged into the data port of an analog radio to enable DMR...Even at $150, it would be a savings over buying a whole new radio.

--Jim


Jim Kusznir
 

Ok, thank you guys!

I figured there was a reason I didn't see someone making (overpriced) boxes that plugged into the data port of an analog radio to enable DMR...Even at $150, it would be a savings over buying a whole new radio.

--Jim


 

Another issue is the FT-8900 doesn't have the T/R switching speed to enable it to be a fully Tier II compliant radio.  I agree with Steve, the best solution for this scenario is an analog repeater/gateway, with DVSwitch behind it for access to the digital networks.

On 2/11/20 7:25 am, Steve N4IRS wrote:
Jim,
Yes, you can mix and match components from a number of different project. The radio you describe would have to pick off the analog audio from the mic, send it through a vocoder and then send the datastream back to the transmitter and on to the DMR repeater. In the receive direction, the radio would have to pick off the the audio from the discriminator, send it to the vocoder. The analog audio would need to be injected back into the radio so the audio could be sent to the speaker. As of this is doable. There is one actual problem. The MMDVM software can look like a DMR repeater transmitter to a subscriber radio. The MMDVM software can look like a simplex signal (DMO) to a subscriber radio. What the MMDVM software can not do, is look like a subscriber radio to a DMR repeater. The same is true for traffic from a DMR repeater to the radio. The MMDVM software can not receive the output of a DMR repeater.

If I were trying to accomplish what you seem to want, I would put my money into the hill top repeater. I would build a high quality analog repeater. The would give you the best mobile coverage. Now couple that repeater with a Digital Voice bridge and you not only get DMR, you get all 5 digital modes plus analog repeater networking. This does assume the hill top repeater has internet access as would a DMR repeater.

Just my take. YMMV
73, Steve N4IRS    

On 11/1/20 3:01 PM, Jim Kusznir wrote:
Hi all:

So, as I reread this and talked to others, it sounded like my request may not have been all that clear, so here's another go, more from application than technical function:

I usually am mobile while on ham radio (VHF/UHF).  I just recently installed an FT-8900.  In my area, due to terrain, 6m is used (and is occasionally the only reliable way to get out).  Cell tower coverage is pretty spotty.

I'm looking to use an existing wide-area DMR repeater transmitting on actual ham bands at "repeater power" located on hilltops with wide range.  I'm looking to do this mobile, where an HT would NOT cut it.  I would rather not have two completely separate radios and antennas in my vehicle, and the only viable mobile I've even considered to this point is the Anytone 578.  Unfortunately, even if I did go the dual-radio route, the Anytone does not allow for separating the control head, and that is required in my vehicle.  So, that leaves me with no ability to use DMR when mobile, which is 90% of my ham radio activity.

What I wanted was a way to do DMR with my existing FT-8900, much like I can do 9600 baud packet with my FT-8900 by plugging in additional equipment to the jack on the back of the radio.  I was hoping to create a "DMR TNC" with its own little display, mic, and speaker, and have it connect to my FT-8900 and use it as a CLIENT on the DMR system, and NOT need any internet in my vehicle (or immediate vicinity).

So, to accomplish this, I see:
1) there ARE software packages that can work with a Pi to connect via IP to the DMR network and run as a client (with a mic/speaker), allowing all talk group access,etc., available on the IP connection you are using.  This is 1/2 of what I was looking for, but no IP connectivity to the DMR network...I want to use my radio.
2) there are solutions for using a Pi to connect to an analog radio and turn it into a hotspot/repeater and connect to the DMR system with IP.  However, I am not looking to be a "repeater" (server) but a user (client).

Ideally, I would like to take parts from both of the above and "mash them together" so that my software frontend will interface with a board (perhaps like the STMDVM, perhaps just an ADC like NWDR's DRAWs hat) which will connect with the analog radio.  Yea, I will likely need something like the ThumbDV or some other AMBE vocoder chip connected via USB....OK.  The missing piece seems to be some sort of software bits to act as an RF client.  I'm also wondering if this hasn't already been done because the analog radio cannot switch its transmitter on/off fast enough to do TDM as a client....If it actually isn't possible for this (or other technical reasons), please let me know!

One more thing: I am NOT limiting options to "ready built systems".  I am a tinkerer, and I am good with linux.  I'm sure I could get a DMR-AllStarLink system going or other such stuff.  I'm not an outright coder, so modding the source code of the client to implement what I'm looking for is beyond me, but I don't require something as neatly packaged as PiStar (but would gladly accept it if it were there!).

Thanks again all!
--Jim, K7LL


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


Steve N4IRS
 

Jim,
Yes, you can mix and match components from a number of different project. The radio you describe would have to pick off the analog audio from the mic, send it through a vocoder and then send the datastream back to the transmitter and on to the DMR repeater. In the receive direction, the radio would have to pick off the the audio from the discriminator, send it to the vocoder. The analog audio would need to be injected back into the radio so the audio could be sent to the speaker. As of this is doable. There is one actual problem. The MMDVM software can look like a DMR repeater transmitter to a subscriber radio. The MMDVM software can look like a simplex signal (DMO) to a subscriber radio. What the MMDVM software can not do, is look like a subscriber radio to a DMR repeater. The same is true for traffic from a DMR repeater to the radio. The MMDVM software can not receive the output of a DMR repeater.

If I were trying to accomplish what you seem to want, I would put my money into the hill top repeater. I would build a high quality analog repeater. The would give you the best mobile coverage. Now couple that repeater with a Digital Voice bridge and you not only get DMR, you get all 5 digital modes plus analog repeater networking. This does assume the hill top repeater has internet access as would a DMR repeater.

Just my take. YMMV
73, Steve N4IRS    

On 11/1/20 3:01 PM, Jim Kusznir wrote:
Hi all:

So, as I reread this and talked to others, it sounded like my request may not have been all that clear, so here's another go, more from application than technical function:

I usually am mobile while on ham radio (VHF/UHF).  I just recently installed an FT-8900.  In my area, due to terrain, 6m is used (and is occasionally the only reliable way to get out).  Cell tower coverage is pretty spotty.

I'm looking to use an existing wide-area DMR repeater transmitting on actual ham bands at "repeater power" located on hilltops with wide range.  I'm looking to do this mobile, where an HT would NOT cut it.  I would rather not have two completely separate radios and antennas in my vehicle, and the only viable mobile I've even considered to this point is the Anytone 578.  Unfortunately, even if I did go the dual-radio route, the Anytone does not allow for separating the control head, and that is required in my vehicle.  So, that leaves me with no ability to use DMR when mobile, which is 90% of my ham radio activity.

What I wanted was a way to do DMR with my existing FT-8900, much like I can do 9600 baud packet with my FT-8900 by plugging in additional equipment to the jack on the back of the radio.  I was hoping to create a "DMR TNC" with its own little display, mic, and speaker, and have it connect to my FT-8900 and use it as a CLIENT on the DMR system, and NOT need any internet in my vehicle (or immediate vicinity).

So, to accomplish this, I see:
1) there ARE software packages that can work with a Pi to connect via IP to the DMR network and run as a client (with a mic/speaker), allowing all talk group access,etc., available on the IP connection you are using.  This is 1/2 of what I was looking for, but no IP connectivity to the DMR network...I want to use my radio.
2) there are solutions for using a Pi to connect to an analog radio and turn it into a hotspot/repeater and connect to the DMR system with IP.  However, I am not looking to be a "repeater" (server) but a user (client).

Ideally, I would like to take parts from both of the above and "mash them together" so that my software frontend will interface with a board (perhaps like the STMDVM, perhaps just an ADC like NWDR's DRAWs hat) which will connect with the analog radio.  Yea, I will likely need something like the ThumbDV or some other AMBE vocoder chip connected via USB....OK.  The missing piece seems to be some sort of software bits to act as an RF client.  I'm also wondering if this hasn't already been done because the analog radio cannot switch its transmitter on/off fast enough to do TDM as a client....If it actually isn't possible for this (or other technical reasons), please let me know!

One more thing: I am NOT limiting options to "ready built systems".  I am a tinkerer, and I am good with linux.  I'm sure I could get a DMR-AllStarLink system going or other such stuff.  I'm not an outright coder, so modding the source code of the client to implement what I'm looking for is beyond me, but I don't require something as neatly packaged as PiStar (but would gladly accept it if it were there!).

Thanks again all!
--Jim, K7LL


Jim Kusznir
 

Hi all:

So, as I reread this and talked to others, it sounded like my request may not have been all that clear, so here's another go, more from application than technical function:

I usually am mobile while on ham radio (VHF/UHF).  I just recently installed an FT-8900.  In my area, due to terrain, 6m is used (and is occasionally the only reliable way to get out).  Cell tower coverage is pretty spotty.

I'm looking to use an existing wide-area DMR repeater transmitting on actual ham bands at "repeater power" located on hilltops with wide range.  I'm looking to do this mobile, where an HT would NOT cut it.  I would rather not have two completely separate radios and antennas in my vehicle, and the only viable mobile I've even considered to this point is the Anytone 578.  Unfortunately, even if I did go the dual-radio route, the Anytone does not allow for separating the control head, and that is required in my vehicle.  So, that leaves me with no ability to use DMR when mobile, which is 90% of my ham radio activity.

What I wanted was a way to do DMR with my existing FT-8900, much like I can do 9600 baud packet with my FT-8900 by plugging in additional equipment to the jack on the back of the radio.  I was hoping to create a "DMR TNC" with its own little display, mic, and speaker, and have it connect to my FT-8900 and use it as a CLIENT on the DMR system, and NOT need any internet in my vehicle (or immediate vicinity).

So, to accomplish this, I see:
1) there ARE software packages that can work with a Pi to connect via IP to the DMR network and run as a client (with a mic/speaker), allowing all talk group access,etc., available on the IP connection you are using.  This is 1/2 of what I was looking for, but no IP connectivity to the DMR network...I want to use my radio.
2) there are solutions for using a Pi to connect to an analog radio and turn it into a hotspot/repeater and connect to the DMR system with IP.  However, I am not looking to be a "repeater" (server) but a user (client).

Ideally, I would like to take parts from both of the above and "mash them together" so that my software frontend will interface with a board (perhaps like the STMDVM, perhaps just an ADC like NWDR's DRAWs hat) which will connect with the analog radio.  Yea, I will likely need something like the ThumbDV or some other AMBE vocoder chip connected via USB....OK.  The missing piece seems to be some sort of software bits to act as an RF client.  I'm also wondering if this hasn't already been done because the analog radio cannot switch its transmitter on/off fast enough to do TDM as a client....If it actually isn't possible for this (or other technical reasons), please let me know!

One more thing: I am NOT limiting options to "ready built systems".  I am a tinkerer, and I am good with linux.  I'm sure I could get a DMR-AllStarLink system going or other such stuff.  I'm not an outright coder, so modding the source code of the client to implement what I'm looking for is beyond me, but I don't require something as neatly packaged as PiStar (but would gladly accept it if it were there!).

Thanks again all!
--Jim, K7LL


Jim Kusznir
 

Hello:

I had a recent idea that I was wondering if I'm just crazy, or if this is actually reasonable.

We all know that MMDVM software allows someone to use the internet to create a repeater based on analog radios.  There are also software/hardware packages that allow using a mic and speaker and the internet to connect into DMR as a client (hold conversations, etc).

What about a device/software configuration that wold connect into the 9600 baud data port of an analog radio and a speaker and mic and allow the user to participate in the DMR system as a client through radio (eg, FT-8900 radio, for example)?

I know the STM_DVM board would have the physical connections necessary to interface to the analog radio (it already does that!); I'm not sure if it can act as a client rather than a repeater on the RF port though.

If it can, then the software (Blue DV or one of the equivalents) would need to know how to interface with a radio, or make use of a middle layer (DVSwitch software?)

Finally, is the analog radio able to T/R switch fast enough to do the TDM tx...

Is this doable, or am I just thinking wishfully?

--Jim, K7LL