Analog to DMR missed transmissions


Mike Sullivan
 

I’m using DVSwitch for the Hamvoip Allstarlink image. We have a bridge from Allstar to DMR set up. For some reason, traffic is randomly being missed going from Allstar to DMR. The audio is being received on the private (bridge) node, so I know it is making it there, but it is occasionally being missed by Brandmeister, and it seems to only happen with fast re-keys. As long as there’s more than a split second between transmissions, there is no issue.

Any ideas where to look to find a reason why the transmission might be getting dropped?

Mike


David k7iou
 

It’s normal because of everything that’s taking place. Fast rekeys are the issue, I call it AM operator syndrome 🤣
Operators need to count to three before rekeying.
We’ve have a similar issue with the analog repeater and users on 2M or 440 not counting to three before rekeying. Nobody from the DMR side of the house can join the conversation.

CW mode refers to it if repetitive after informing operators as a…..Lid.
regards
https://www.kb6nu.com/another-explanation-for-the-term-lid/


nh6bf
 

There are many reasons this is happening, as it is on my DVS-ASL node.  The biggest reason is your home wifi not having enough bandwidth.  Of course, BM issues include that they are overwhelmed with the amount of traffic on their network.  Also, DMR to Allstar is not allowed on BM, so they might be sensing that and playing with the signal.  They do not like DVS-server and go to great lengths to detect and remove.  D-star has been the same with DVS-s.  They will block you from REF001 or REF030 if DVS is detected being used....


Corey Dean N3FE
 

I can assure you 100% that bm is not overwhelmed with traffic.  Not even close so let’s not go there…

Corey n3fe


On Jul 20, 2022, at 11:38 AM, nh6bf via groups.io <lr60@...> wrote:

There are many reasons this is happening, as it is on my DVS-ASL node.  The biggest reason is your home wifi not having enough bandwidth.  Of course, BM issues include that they are overwhelmed with the amount of traffic on their network.  Also, DMR to Allstar is not allowed on BM, so they might be sensing that and playing with the signal.  They do not like DVS-server and go to great lengths to detect and remove.  D-star has been the same with DVS-s.  They will block you from REF001 or REF030 if DVS is detected being used....


Robert Bretzman
 

This is my take and I have seen it many times. Our # 1 enemy is latency! Do a ping test to the many different servers that BM has and see for yourself. It is not BM fault! There is not too much traffic. YOU MUST WAIT 3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5. So the entire network and TG can totally reset itself. I know it's hard but if everyone follows this it is so much more enjoyable.
Robert
K4WZV


On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 6:06 AM Corey Dean N3FE via groups.io <n3fe=padmr.com@groups.io> wrote:
I can assure you 100% that bm is not overwhelmed with traffic.  Not even close so let’s not go there…

Corey n3fe


On Jul 20, 2022, at 11:38 AM, nh6bf via groups.io <lr60=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

There are many reasons this is happening, as it is on my DVS-ASL node.  The biggest reason is your home wifi not having enough bandwidth.  Of course, BM issues include that they are overwhelmed with the amount of traffic on their network.  Also, DMR to Allstar is not allowed on BM, so they might be sensing that and playing with the signal.  They do not like DVS-server and go to great lengths to detect and remove.  D-star has been the same with DVS-s.  They will block you from REF001 or REF030 if DVS is detected being used....


nh6bf
 


Waiting "3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5." is not effective communications.  And... a lot of older people forget what they are saying in that enormous amount of time!!!  What we are discussing are "dropouts," signal is there and then it disappears. So, probably not a reset issue, but something is causing the signal to be lost AFTER it has been on the network... The Allstar networks don't do it, even close to what DMR does, and D-star doesn't do it as much either. But...dropouts are a BIG PROBLEM!  Having "faith" in a system is nice, but not helpful.  Keeps a blind eye on the problem.
      I have been on DMR/BM for years...  didn't do it before as much.  Now, I listen, not talk, because of the dropouts.  
 
    


 

Allowing a pause between transmission does work well, except for one thing.  In the 2+ decades since RoIP came to the airwaves (anyone else remember IPhone? :) ), paiusing 3-5 seconds has been recommended, but it's still hard to get people to do it.  We're going to have this issue forever, unless we maintain a strong focus on educating each other.


On 21/7/22 9:20 pm, Robert Bretzman wrote:
This is my take and I have seen it many times. Our # 1 enemy is latency! Do a ping test to the many different servers that BM has and see for yourself. It is not BM fault! There is not too much traffic. YOU MUST WAIT 3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5. So the entire network and TG can totally reset itself. I know it's hard but if everyone follows this it is so much more enjoyable.
Robert
K4WZV


On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 6:06 AM Corey Dean N3FE via groups.io <n3fe=padmr.com@groups.io> wrote:
I can assure you 100% that bm is not overwhelmed with traffic.  Not even close so let’s not go there…

Corey n3fe


On Jul 20, 2022, at 11:38 AM, nh6bf via groups.io <lr60=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

There are many reasons this is happening, as it is on my DVS-ASL node.  The biggest reason is your home wifi not having enough bandwidth.  Of course, BM issues include that they are overwhelmed with the amount of traffic on their network.  Also, DMR to Allstar is not allowed on BM, so they might be sensing that and playing with the signal.  They do not like DVS-server and go to great lengths to detect and remove.  D-star has been the same with DVS-s.  They will block you from REF001 or REF030 if DVS is detected being used....


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


 

I rarely use BM these days.  Most often on FreeDMR or VK-DMR(DMR+), where I haven't seen too many issues, but quickly keying up can caused a missed over.

I also discovered my main hotspot (a 2+ year old cheap Chinese duplex hat) is prone to dropping out on DMR in the middle of an over when I transmit (works perfectly on other modes or while receiving remote DMR transmissions over the network), regardless of network.  I use my repeater (also MMDVM based) for DMR, as that's much more reliable.

Just another data point.

On 22/7/22 12:44 am, nh6bf via groups.io wrote:

Waiting "3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5." is not effective communications.  And... a lot of older people forget what they are saying in that enormous amount of time!!!  What we are discussing are "dropouts," signal is there and then it disappears. So, probably not a reset issue, but something is causing the signal to be lost AFTER it has been on the network... The Allstar networks don't do it, even close to what DMR does, and D-star doesn't do it as much either. But...dropouts are a BIG PROBLEM!  Having "faith" in a system is nice, but not helpful.  Keeps a blind eye on the problem.
      I have been on DMR/BM for years...  didn't do it before as much.  Now, I listen, not talk, because of the dropouts.  
 
    


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


Steve N4IRS
 

Anyone remember wait for the courtesy tone....

On 7/21/22 18:44, Tony Langdon wrote:
I rarely use BM these days.  Most often on FreeDMR or VK-DMR(DMR+), where I haven't seen too many issues, but quickly keying up can caused a missed over.

I also discovered my main hotspot (a 2+ year old cheap Chinese duplex hat) is prone to dropping out on DMR in the middle of an over when I transmit (works perfectly on other modes or while receiving remote DMR transmissions over the network), regardless of network.  I use my repeater (also MMDVM based) for DMR, as that's much more reliable.

Just another data point.

On 22/7/22 12:44 am, nh6bf via groups.io wrote:

Waiting "3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5." is not effective communications.  And... a lot of older people forget what they are saying in that enormous amount of time!!!  What we are discussing are "dropouts," signal is there and then it disappears. So, probably not a reset issue, but something is causing the signal to be lost AFTER it has been on the network... The Allstar networks don't do it, even close to what DMR does, and D-star doesn't do it as much either. But...dropouts are a BIG PROBLEM!  Having "faith" in a system is nice, but not helpful.  Keeps a blind eye on the problem.
      I have been on DMR/BM for years...  didn't do it before as much.  Now, I listen, not talk, because of the dropouts.  
 
    


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


 

What courtesy tone? :D  Digital doesn't have them (at meaningful delays after the traffic stops). :( 

On 22/7/22 10:42 am, Steve N4IRS wrote:
Anyone remember wait for the courtesy tone....

On 7/21/22 18:44, Tony Langdon wrote:
I rarely use BM these days.  Most often on FreeDMR or VK-DMR(DMR+), where I haven't seen too many issues, but quickly keying up can caused a missed over.

I also discovered my main hotspot (a 2+ year old cheap Chinese duplex hat) is prone to dropping out on DMR in the middle of an over when I transmit (works perfectly on other modes or while receiving remote DMR transmissions over the network), regardless of network.  I use my repeater (also MMDVM based) for DMR, as that's much more reliable.

Just another data point.

On 22/7/22 12:44 am, nh6bf via groups.io wrote:

Waiting "3-5 seconds after a transmission ends before you key up. Closer to 5." is not effective communications.  And... a lot of older people forget what they are saying in that enormous amount of time!!!  What we are discussing are "dropouts," signal is there and then it disappears. So, probably not a reset issue, but something is causing the signal to be lost AFTER it has been on the network... The Allstar networks don't do it, even close to what DMR does, and D-star doesn't do it as much either. But...dropouts are a BIG PROBLEM!  Having "faith" in a system is nice, but not helpful.  Keeps a blind eye on the problem.
      I have been on DMR/BM for years...  didn't do it before as much.  Now, I listen, not talk, because of the dropouts.  
 
    


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com


Steve N4IRS
 

Mike,
We discussed this and I don't see a way for the transmission to be lost. That being said, the next step is to capture the section of the logs when this happens.
We need to get the same time frame from the AB and MB logs. The AB log is in /var/log/dvswitch. The MB log is in /var/log/mmdvm

Steve N4IRS


Brad N8PC
 

If he is having audio drop outs from either Analog to digital or digital to analog he needs to reboot his internet. I had it happen to me the other day after a storm. also he needs to check his addressing in his router to make sure it points to his repeater especially if he is only getting 1/2 the conversation( ex: digital to analog). 

On 7/22/2022 12:33 PM, Steve N4IRS wrote:
Mike,
We discussed this and I don't see a way for the transmission to be lost. That being said, the next step is to capture the section of the logs when this happens.
We need to get the same time frame from the AB and MB logs. The AB log is in /var/log/dvswitch. The MB log is in /var/log/mmdvm

Steve N4IRS


nh6bf
 

The ClearNode that was doing the linking didn't have much in the logs... but mine did, and it was on echolink at the time.  The KE5SQC in the log towards the bottom was a drop out, but... what is the "KB3NUN to TG 3142"???


nh6bf
 

I found TG3142 in the Brandmeister hotspot page.  I placed that in there a year ago to talk to someone in PA and it stayed.  The Clearnode won't tell you if another TG is on the DMR side.  Removed it and trying to see if I get better reception on DMR... might be the culprit, or at least part of it....