more: not connecting to BM any more


Ken KE2N
 

A couple nights ago my DVSwitch MMDVM connection to BM failed without warning.   I have been trying various tweaks to the ini file without luck today.
Any more revelations on this topic?

Tnx
Ken

2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.215 DMR, Opening DMR Network
E: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.303 DMR, Opening DMR Network
 


Peter M0NWI
 

Did you try setting you config file to Simplex, both frequencies to the same number as discussed here over the last couple of days?


From: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io> on behalf of Ken KE2N via groups.io <ke2n@...>
Sent: 13 March 2021 20:20
To: main@DVSwitch.groups.io <main@DVSwitch.groups.io>
Subject: [DVSwitch] more: not connecting to BM any more
 
A couple nights ago my DVSwitch MMDVM connection to BM failed without warning.   I have been trying various tweaks to the ini file without luck today.
Any more revelations on this topic?

Tnx
Ken

2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.215 DMR, Opening DMR Network
E: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.303 DMR, Opening DMR Network
 


Ian Tulley
 

Hi Ken, in your MMDVM_Bridge.ini make sure that your DMR ID matches your callsign and that the TX and RX frequencies are the same.
The latest update on the BM Masters will not allow connection if those are not correct.


Regards
Ian (VK2HK)

Typo's, autocorrect or spelling mistakes courtesy of both myself and my iPhone

On 14 Mar 2021, at 07:21, Ken KE2N via groups.io <ke2n@...> wrote:

A couple nights ago my DVSwitch MMDVM connection to BM failed without warning.   I have been trying various tweaks to the ini file without luck today.
Any more revelations on this topic?

Tnx
Ken

2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.214 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:00.215 DMR, Opening DMR Network
E: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Login to the master has failed, retrying network ...
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.299 DMR, Closing DMR Network
M: 2021-03-13 20:19:10.303 DMR, Opening DMR Network
 


Steve N4IRS
 

https://dvswitch.groups.io/g/main/message/9018


Ken KE2N
 

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 12:44 PM, Steve N4IRS wrote:
https://dvswitch.groups.io/g/main/message/9018

Yeah I saw that. Setting the two frequencies equal did not help. What finally got the registration working again was setting duplex=1 and leaving the frequencies split. It had been duplex=0 which used to work fine.   I guess duplex=1 means full duplex repeater, which is what I actually have. 

As part of this exercise, I did an update using the DVS menu item.  I am pretty sure I answered no to changes in the ini file, but the update procedure wiped my (MMDVM) password and changed the ports to the default values instead of the ones I had been using in asterisk/usrp.  (It may have changed some other things that did not matter - since I had left them at defaults). 

Its working now - with one anomaly I just noticed.  If the repeaters are idle for some time, I have to key up the analog side first to get the bridge working.  Keying up the DMR side first does not activate the analog side.  The only unusual thing that shows up  in the logs is a timeout in the ircddb log. I don't know if it's related, but this is the message:

 CCS: Connection has failed (poll inactivity) for KE2N   E, reconnecting

That's all

Ken



Steve N4IRS
 

Ken,
You need to check your frequencies again. setting the frequencies to match and duplex = 0 is what you want and will work. Also make sure the callsign matches the DMR ID and the password is correct.

Steve N4IRS

On 3/14/21 11:27 AM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 12:44 PM, Steve N4IRS wrote:
https://dvswitch.groups.io/g/main/message/9018

Yeah I saw that. Setting the two frequencies equal did not help. What finally got the registration working again was setting duplex=1 and leaving the frequencies split. It had been duplex=0 which used to work fine.   I guess duplex=1 means full duplex repeater, which is what I actually have. 

As part of this exercise, I did an update using the DVS menu item.  I am pretty sure I answered no to changes in the ini file, but the update procedure wiped my (MMDVM) password and changed the ports to the default values instead of the ones I had been using in asterisk/usrp.  (It may have changed some other things that did not matter - since I had left them at defaults). 

Its working now - with one anomaly I just noticed.  If the repeaters are idle for some time, I have to key up the analog side first to get the bridge working.  Keying up the DMR side first does not activate the analog side.  The only unusual thing that shows up  in the logs is a timeout in the ircddb log. I don't know if it's related, but this is the message:

 CCS: Connection has failed (poll inactivity) for KE2N   E, reconnecting

That's all

Ken




Ken KE2N
 

OK - so I probably made a typo in the frequency. Complicated by the unwanted ini changes from the update.

If I understand then, DVSwitch looks like a simplex hot spot from the BM side.  
So you have to tell BM you are a simplex node, even if you are a repeater  (at least until some fix is implemented).

Can you clarify if the ID in the [General] stanza should be CCS7 or the 9-digit CCS7+2  or does it matter?

The DVSwitch dashboard shows both numbers. 7-digits for GW ID and 9-digits for RPT ID.  (That is coming from AB I guess).

Am I to understand that MMDVM_Bridge, in addition to its protocol translation function, is also a DMR gateway? (or perhaps DMR does not need a gateway)?  

Thanks
Ken


PS I fixed the DSTAR error message by killing ircgatewayd and setting DSTAR enable=0 in MMDVM
I suspect the error was due to a conflict with the actual DSTAR repeater that I run at the same public IP.


Steve N4IRS
 

The update does not force a change to the .ini you can say no.
There is no fix needed. You can look to BM as a repeater or a simplex hotspot. There are pluses and minuses with each type. You just need to set the options. Most users are DMO.
The ID in the [General] section is how you identify to the Master. I suggest you add a SSID for more finite control from the BM admin page.
The repeater ID will go away at some point. It's a leftover.
DMR Gateway is designed to allow the MMDVM hotspot user to use modified TG numbers to switch networks on the fly. MMDVM_Bridge provides switching networks without a gateway. 

On 3/15/2021 12:09 PM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
OK - so I probably made a typo in the frequency. Complicated by the unwanted ini changes from the update.

If I understand then, DVSwitch looks like a simplex hot spot from the BM side.  
So you have to tell BM you are a simplex node, even if you are a repeater  (at least until some fix is implemented).

Can you clarify if the ID in the [General] stanza should be CCS7 or the 9-digit CCS7+2  or does it matter?

The DVSwitch dashboard shows both numbers. 7-digits for GW ID and 9-digits for RPT ID.  (That is coming from AB I guess).

Am I to understand that MMDVM_Bridge, in addition to its protocol translation function, is also a DMR gateway? (or perhaps DMR does not need a gateway)?  

Thanks
Ken


PS I fixed the DSTAR error message by killing ircgatewayd and setting DSTAR enable=0 in MMDVM
I suspect the error was due to a conflict with the actual DSTAR repeater that I run at the same public IP.


Ken KE2N
 

Ok ... but why do I have to make the TX and RX frequencies "match"  (set equal to each other) when, in fact, the RF end of my system uses different frequencies for the transmitter and receiver?



Ken


Steve N4IRS
 

Because you are using the MMDVM protocol to connect to BrandMeister and it requires the TX and RX frequency to match for a DMO connection. It has NOTHING to do with your Analog_Repeater. If you like you can set the frequencies to match your Analog_repeater and set duplex to 1. (non DMO)

On 3/15/21 4:17 PM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
Ok ... but why do I have to make the TX and RX frequencies "match"  (set equal to each other) when, in fact, the RF end of my system uses different frequencies for the transmitter and receiver?



Ken


Ken KE2N
 

OK - a while back you told me I needed to set duplex = 0 but now you are saying I can set it to either 1 or 0.  If it is set to zero, then the frequencies need to be the same.  But this is not my experience.  If I set it to 1, with different frequencies, after 5 minutes or so I can no longer bring up the connection from my DMR HT/repeater, unless I first key up the analog side. There is no error message in the log when it dies. It's like BM just stops talking to MMDVM_Bridge unless it has recently heard something going the other way. This problem does not happen with duplex=0.

As you point out, all the talk about frequencies is, of course, irrelevant to MMDVM_Bridge because its not an actual modem connected to a radio. 

The answer to my question about the ID number is that it can be either the 7 digit number or a 9 digit number.  The extra digits let me see (in self-care) which hot spot is active. But that 9 digit number does not show up in Last Heard - only 7 digits are seen. And it does not show up in the DVSwitch dashboard. Is there some other place it would show up?

DMO is a new acronym for me. Direct Mode Operation - it seems was originally intended to distinguish from Repeater Mode Operation. For DMO the radio would operate simplex with only 1 time slot - or maybe no time slots at all.  But I guess DMO has taken on additional meaning having to do with hot spots and network protocol.

Sorry for being a bit thick about this.  I am trying to increase my level of understanding in fits and starts.


Ken


Steve N4IRS
 

One last time.
I told you to set duplex to 0 because that is the recommended method. When you asked about setting split frequencies I told you that you COULD use duplex. We strongly suggest people set the config for DMO. That is simplex so the frequencies need to match or BM will not accept the connection. As I said, if you set to duplex you have to set the frequencies to split or again, BM will not allow you to connect. As I said, if you choose to use duplex, remember we recommend people use DMO, BM treats the connection as a repeater. Repeaters have different rules from a DMO connection. A DMO connection
creates a static TG type. This TG stays until you disconnect it. For a repeater connection, the TG is timed. After a period of inactivity, the TG is disconnected. If you want to over ride this, go into selfcare and set the TG static.

Yes, the ID number you use to connect to BM can be 7 or 9 digit, if 9 digit, you can have 100 hotspot connections, each can be configured differently. The ID used to login to BM is NOT the ID that is displayed on the dashboard becaue it is not the station transmitting, that is defined in the AB.ini since an analog signal has no DMR ID. If you have a hotspot logged into to BM with an ID of 123456789 and your DMR radio is programmed with your DMR ID of 1234567, then 1234567 will be displayed on the lastheard. Corey can chime in and correct me here if I have missed something.

 I have not explained all the differences between DMO and repeater connection. In the next few weeks, we will provide a better method of connecting the BM. That is called Simple Terminal Feature Update. This protocol is what BM want us to use to connect to BM. It is a simpler connection with some features not available in DMO or repeater. It is in beta test now.

Some times the nuances of connectivity are not readily apparent. We have been connecting AllStar to DMR networks before there was a BrandMeister Network. I suggest you ask how something works, don't tell us how things work because sometimes you can't see the big picture without being around the systems for a while.

Steve N4IRS
     

On 3/15/21 7:21 PM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
OK - a while back you told me I needed to set duplex = 0 but now you are saying I can set it to either 1 or 0.  If it is set to zero, then the frequencies need to be the same.  But this is not my experience.  If I set it to 1, with different frequencies, after 5 minutes or so I can no longer bring up the connection from my DMR HT/repeater, unless I first key up the analog side. There is no error message in the log when it dies. It's like BM just stops talking to MMDVM_Bridge unless it has recently heard something going the other way. This problem does not happen with duplex=0.

As you point out, all the talk about frequencies is, of course, irrelevant to MMDVM_Bridge because its not an actual modem connected to a radio. 

The answer to my question about the ID number is that it can be either the 7 digit number or a 9 digit number.  The extra digits let me see (in self-care) which hot spot is active. But that 9 digit number does not show up in Last Heard - only 7 digits are seen. And it does not show up in the DVSwitch dashboard. Is there some other place it would show up?

DMO is a new acronym for me. Direct Mode Operation - it seems was originally intended to distinguish from Repeater Mode Operation. For DMO the radio would operate simplex with only 1 time slot - or maybe no time slots at all.  But I guess DMO has taken on additional meaning having to do with hot spots and network protocol.

Sorry for being a bit thick about this.  I am trying to increase my level of understanding in fits and starts.


Ken


Corey Dean N3FE
 

TO add to this a little.

It doesn't matter if you are running DVSwitch or even a hotspot, DMO means simplex and the tx/rx frequencies must match.  It wouldn't be simplex if it didn't.  This was being abused and why bm made the changed.  If you are running in Full Duplex then the frequencies cat match or in theory you would be looping yourself and the network.

As for not showing up on the dash board.  Only your 7 digit subscriber number will work as a user.  A subscriber cant add 01-99 to their ID or it becomes invalid.  Your device, such as a hot spot can be your 7 digit subscriber id and you may add 01-99 to it.  If it isn't showing on the dash then you are changing it in the wrong place.

The above is just the basics and not tied to just DVswitch or any of the different software applications.  You may want to do some google seach on MMDVM protocol or homebrew protocol and just read up on it.  It may answer a lot of your questions.

Corey  N3FE

 


On 2021-03-15 19:49, Steve N4IRS wrote:

One last time.
I told you to set duplex to 0 because that is the recommended method. When you asked about setting split frequencies I told you that you COULD use duplex. We strongly suggest people set the config for DMO. That is simplex so the frequencies need to match or BM will not accept the connection. As I said, if you set to duplex you have to set the frequencies to split or again, BM will not allow you to connect. As I said, if you choose to use duplex, remember we recommend people use DMO, BM treats the connection as a repeater. Repeaters have different rules from a DMO connection. A DMO connection
creates a static TG type. This TG stays until you disconnect it. For a repeater connection, the TG is timed. After a period of inactivity, the TG is disconnected. If you want to over ride this, go into selfcare and set the TG static.

Yes, the ID number you use to connect to BM can be 7 or 9 digit, if 9 digit, you can have 100 hotspot connections, each can be configured differently. The ID used to login to BM is NOT the ID that is displayed on the dashboard becaue it is not the station transmitting, that is defined in the AB.ini since an analog signal has no DMR ID. If you have a hotspot logged into to BM with an ID of 123456789 and your DMR radio is programmed with your DMR ID of 1234567, then 1234567 will be displayed on the lastheard. Corey can chime in and correct me here if I have missed something.

 I have not explained all the differences between DMO and repeater connection. In the next few weeks, we will provide a better method of connecting the BM. That is called Simple Terminal Feature Update. This protocol is what BM want us to use to connect to BM. It is a simpler connection with some features not available in DMO or repeater. It is in beta test now.

Some times the nuances of connectivity are not readily apparent. We have been connecting AllStar to DMR networks before there was a BrandMeister Network. I suggest you ask how something works, don't tell us how things work because sometimes you can't see the big picture without being around the systems for a while.

Steve N4IRS
     

On 3/15/21 7:21 PM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
OK - a while back you told me I needed to set duplex = 0 but now you are saying I can set it to either 1 or 0.  If it is set to zero, then the frequencies need to be the same.  But this is not my experience.  If I set it to 1, with different frequencies, after 5 minutes or so I can no longer bring up the connection from my DMR HT/repeater, unless I first key up the analog side. There is no error message in the log when it dies. It's like BM just stops talking to MMDVM_Bridge unless it has recently heard something going the other way. This problem does not happen with duplex=0.

As you point out, all the talk about frequencies is, of course, irrelevant to MMDVM_Bridge because its not an actual modem connected to a radio. 

The answer to my question about the ID number is that it can be either the 7 digit number or a 9 digit number.  The extra digits let me see (in self-care) which hot spot is active. But that 9 digit number does not show up in Last Heard - only 7 digits are seen. And it does not show up in the DVSwitch dashboard. Is there some other place it would show up?

DMO is a new acronym for me. Direct Mode Operation - it seems was originally intended to distinguish from Repeater Mode Operation. For DMO the radio would operate simplex with only 1 time slot - or maybe no time slots at all.  But I guess DMO has taken on additional meaning having to do with hot spots and network protocol.

Sorry for being a bit thick about this.  I am trying to increase my level of understanding in fits and starts.


Ken


Steve N4IRS
 

Yes, you need to understand how BM wants a connection to be configured. A duplex connection from MMDVM_Bridge has very little upside and more downside.
We have tried to set the defaults in MMDVM_Bridge for DMO. (duplex =0)  A mis-configured simplex hotspot could have it's frequencies set to split. When BM started implementing controls to not allow a mis-configured client to connect, we had to change the default frequencies to simplex. You do not have to tell BM you want a duplex connection, you just have to configure your client to duplex =1 and split frequencies.

As Corey said, these are protocol standards and BM standards. MMDVMHost and MMDVM_Bridge allowed a improper configuration to be sent to the Master. BM has implemented controls to not allow this. DVSwitch is changing MMDVM_Bridge to fix mis-configured connections before they are sent to a Master (BM or not) Simple Terminal Feature Update makes all of this moot.    

On 3/16/2021 8:29 AM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
So maybe the gap in my knowledge is on the BM end.  I am concluding that the ad hoc connection made by MMDVM_Bridge is always (or by default)  a DMO connection.

If you wanted the (RMO) duplex connection, is there something you have to tell BM first? Are you basically asking for a repeater connection?

Ken


Ken KE2N
 

OK - hold the boat.
I finally figured out what is going on.  I was on the right track when I concluded that something had to be done on the BM side.

When you change from duplex=0 to duplex=1,  BM automatically changes your hot spot configuration to have two time slots.
You will not see this unless you are looking for it - e.g., by going to BM self-care and refreshing the browser (may have to clear cache in some browsers).
Any static TG you had configured will "disappear" - it belonged to your old duplex=0 hot spot.
You need to set the static TG for the appropriate TS for your shiny new duplex hot spot. Otherwise MMDVM_Bridge will be disconnected from receiving the TG after a few minutes. 

>> this was what was causing the issue I observed.

Thanks for humoring me - 

Ken


Steve N4IRS
 

Well,
I disagree that anything has to be done on the BM side. It all depends on your needs. And again, duplex offers some advantages but has some downsides.
Yes, the UI for BM changes base on the configuration you present during login. MB is not disconnected from the receiving TG, BM uses a inactivity timer for a duplex connection to remove the TG.


Steve N4IRS

On 3/16/2021 9:10 AM, Ken KE2N via groups.io wrote:
OK - hold the boat.
I finally figured out what is going on.  I was on the right track when I concluded that something had to be done on the BM side.

When you change from duplex=0 to duplex=1,  BM automatically changes your hot spot configuration to have two time slots.
You will not see this unless you are looking for it - e.g., by going to BM self-care and refreshing the browser (may have to clear cache in some browsers).
Any static TG you had configured will "disappear" - it belonged to your old duplex=0 hot spot.
You need to set the static TG for the appropriate TS for your shiny new duplex hot spot. Otherwise MMDVM_Bridge will be disconnected from receiving the TG after a few minutes. 

>> this was what was causing the issue I observed.

Thanks for humoring me - 

Ken